The difference between Damaged and Wounded
Roz: formerly wounded woman, with new husband, new life and renewed hope........
Sometimes it seems like people can only see things filtered through their own beliefs and ideologies, and therefore can only catch a glimpse of the whole picture. I was reading Halima's post and as usual it was excellent. She was talking about levels of damage in the bc and how one level has nothing to do with another. She is absolutely right however, I kept feeling like something did not quite fit, but I could not put my finger on it. I fell asleep thinking about it and then it came to me as I dreamed. It was the word! the word is not fitting or fair! Most bw are not damaged-they are wounded!!! and there is a big difference! When I closed my eyes I fell asleep and dreamed of my prior marriage.....
This is the first and last time I have ever allowed a damaged man into my life. Believe me I hate to reveal the following story. It's something I always planned to take to the grave, but if it will help even one other woman out there- I'm willing to do it.........
Years ago I was married to a seemingly good black man.( or so everyone told me) I loved him very much and we had a beautiful little daughter, almost 3 More than anything I just wanted to make this marriage work and stay together,
especially for Jaide's sake (my precious daughter) Her father's father had walked out on him when he was young and as a result he was very angry. He constantly took his anger out on me. I think the fact that my dad had been in my life exacerbated this pain to him. He had to have the house spotless all the time and he would throw anger fits if I did not dress like someone from little house on the prairie. (horrible, out of date clothing, far too large) He was a control freak about everything, and often began to scream at me for any little infraction. The marriage grew to be an onerous burden for me, and I had begun to save money for my inevitable departure. One day we had to go to the market because the baby was out of milk. He was in a bad mood (as usual) and when we were in the store, in front of the cashier, he began to scream at me because I got the wrong brand of oil. I was extremely embarrassed and people were looking at us, so I tried to walk away from him. He became enraged and snatched me back. At that point the cashier ( a very young wm) interrupted in a loud and commanding voice "excuse me sir," he told my husband "there is plenty of time for you to go get the oil you prefer, please stop treating her like that!" My husband looked at me with rage on his face and stalked away. I looked at my nearly 3 year old baby, she looked sad, and frightened. I remember feeling sick with fear, and sadness for my baby. I knew we'd be using that stashed money soon. As my husband passed me to get the oil, he deliberately stomped on my sandled foot with his combat boot! Instantly I began to cry. I was horrified because I really hate to cry and I especially never do it in front of strangers! The people next to me in line (mostly white) looked at me with such pity on their faces, I will never forget it as long as I live. They had seen everything! I wanted to die with embarrassment but, I knew one thing for sure, I was leaving. I was not going to wait any longer to save more money, I was leaving....
Later, barely able to control his rage until we were inside the house he turned on me. He screamed obscenities and then began to choke me until everything began to go dark, he finally let me go when he saw me fading away. He told me I was stupid, lazy (no matter how clean I kept the house) and a waste of his time. He said that black women were not worth shit and that we always drove men to hurt us because we didn't know how to act, and we did not deserve anybody. He said that if I did not get my shit together he was leaving. Very quietly I mumbled "please do!" He asked me what I'd said and I said again, stronger this time"please leave! -and promise not to come back!" "If that's the way you feel, I will" he said quietly. I grabbed my daughter and tried to make it from the room before his rage returned. But as I tried to pass him, he swung quietly around and punched me in the face. I threw my 2 year old to the bed and told her to go!( our code word for run) she hopped from the bed but instead of running away like I had taught her, she ran toward us screaming at him "don't kill my mommy, Leave us alone daddy!" In one quick motion he back handed her, and she flew into the wall!!! In that instant I went from victim, crying on the floor to enraged mother! I jumped up and ran at him with my fists flailing. I began to punch him with a strength I had never known before! He ran from the house this time with me looking for something harder to hit him with....By the time he got back, I had thrown everything that could fit into the car, taken my baby, and left. She did not even ask me if we were coming back, even at the age of not quite 3, she knew we weren't..... I left a beautiful house with beautiful furniture and so called security, although I don't know how much security can a woman have with a very damaged man. He told everyone who would listen that I had left him and stolen his daughter! He said he had only tried to be good to me and had no idea why I was such an evil bitch. His family called repeatedly to curse me out- and tell me that I was a piss poor excuse for a black woman. When this failed to send me back, they resorted to threats. He had a very good job (RN Nurse) so friends and even some of my family members told me I was stupid to leave. They said BM have problems because of the racism they endure and that a good woman would have stayed with him. I told them I must not be a good bw because I was not going back! And I never did. All this took place years ago, but I can look back and still feel the pain of that experience. It taught me many valuable lessons.
1. Lesson 1 is: we do what we must! I had to leave-so I did. Many nights I wanted to leave him but thought I did not have the strength, no matter how horribly he treated me. After he hurt my baby, I knew I could never stay no matter how much he begged. and I never went back no matter what devises he tried.
2. The second Lesson I learned was that I was stronger than I thought and that I could make changes in my life anytime I decided to. We all can. I made a conscious decision to leave, and a conscious decision to go to computer school. I was forced to live with relatives and believe you me that was extremely hard. But my daughter and I made it and we are both stronger and happier from the storms we have endured.
3. The 3rd lesson I learned was that I was wounded by pain that I went through but I was never DAMAGED! I never turned on anyone else and tried to victimize them or sold drugs or used drugs or turned to a life of crime to justify the pain and poverty that I endured. To me damage is when a person has an experience that they find intolerable or undesirable and turn it on other people! My ex had no father. This made him very angry and he turned his anger on me and an innocent baby. That to me is damage! We were not responsible for him not having a father! He said the white man was why his father left (? I don't know how, so don't ask me) Yet he went to work everyday and smiled in his white boss's face. Then he would come home and make life a living hell for me and his child. To me this is DAMAGE! He was later severely reprimanded and lost his hospital job because he attacked a helpless patient. (more evidence of damage) Looking back though, I can see all the ways that I was wounded. I was angry at myself alot for being stupid enough to ever be in that position. It was very hard for me to forgive me. I refused dates for years, and was very over protective of my child. I was also guarded and morose alot, but I can proudly say never once did I ever victimize another person. One day my daughter came to me and thanked me for leaving. She actually remembered life with her father! She said she was proud of me for having the strength to leave and that because of that, I had given her a better life..... and that's probably when I started to heal....
Damage --V--Wounded
My point is when someone is robbing, raping, using people, or drugs of any kind, If they are abandoning children or denying children the right to grow up in a safe, secure environment, then they are displaying damage tendencies of the most pronounced form. If they are engaged in criminalized behavior, or predatory behavior of any kind, they are displaying damage pure and simple. The simple definition of damage to me is "I don't like me/my life so may God help you- because I am going to make you pay!
On the other hand, wounded, is when someone is suffering all by themselves and is in no way hurting you, They may be depressed, morose, guarded or have an eating disorder but the point is they are not taking out their pain on other people! This is simply a wounded person, and it is not at all reasonable to call them damaged. this simple definition of a wounded person to me is: "I've been downtrodden and beaten, but with God's help-I will find my way back!
Never let anyone mislead you. There is a huge amount of difference. For one if you were walking on the street alone at night, which one would you rather encounter the damaged or the wounded person?? Who do you think is kicking doors in and victimizing innocent people the damaged or the wounded? Who is on the corners selling drug/poison to our children-the damaged or the wounded? Who is making babies they have no intention of taking financial responsibility for and then abandoning them as fast as they can, the damaged or the wounded? And I don't want to scare anyone, but who is likely to harm your child over a pair of sneakers, or pull a knife over a silly argument-This is DAMAGE, and this is the DIFFERENCE! and the more damaged a person is, (be they male or female black or white) the more deadly they are! Can the damaged be repaired? Sometimes yes and sometimes no, depending on whether they recognize the problem and whether they have any remorse, but irregardless, it is not your place to fix them! The best thing you can do for you and your children is to steer clear.......
58 Comments:
Thank you for posting this...I read silent, fighting back tears, and semi-breathless.
Thank you for sharing this story and the difference between wounded vs damaged.
i dont even have any words at the moment....
THANK YOU for sharing this and for addressing the difference between damaged vs. wounded.
Thank you for posting your story. It takes a lot of bravery to put that out there. I'm speechless at this moment.
Thank you for sharing this. After this, I don't think anyone can say they're confused about the difference between damaged and wounded.
Sara, you hit the nail on the head! This is the point that Halima, Evia, Aimee and others have been trying to make to the discussion on Halima's blog post of March 2. Thank you for breaking it down using a real life example, rather than just speaking theoretically. I was at a loss to understand why so many commenters in Halima's blog post either could not or would not recognize the difference, while it was glaringly obvious to me. I get the feeling that there are some in the BC who want to set themselves up as a special group of highly emotionally healthy and non-dysfunctional BW who are therefore the only ones who are capable of or deserve Quality man happiness (BM or non-BM) - that argument strikes me as so self-righteous and as such a "we without sin" approach. The rest of the sinful dysfunctional damaged BW had better get into therapy and become sinless before they can become capable or worthy of healthy happy relationships. This has not been true for other communities who have been able to address dysfunctional group behavior by the women speaking out, demanding better and refusing to accept certain behaviors from men. I believe this is possible for BW also - many of us are wounded but "still, we rise".
exactly Sandra! to me it's as clear as a bell, but some people ar so busy trying to pretend they're members of mensa, they are not really listening. They seem to be more concerned with trying to impress everyone with thier creditials-instead of reaching any real solutions, that may enhance the conditions of bw all over.
Sara:
Unlike Halima, I DO have plenty of words, but propriety demands that I refrain from using them in the company of ladies.......so I won't.
However I will say that it is this type of wretched behavior by so-called men, that clearly illustrates that there is a BIG difference between the "victims" and the "victimizers", or as you so cogently put it, "the damaged and the wounded". People who attempt to paint both parties with the same brush as being "damaged" are failing to understand this distinction. Great post, as usual, very hard to read it without being overcome with emotion however.
But the good news is that both you and your daughter are now safe.
I once read an article entitled, "The Sociopath Next Door". After reading this letter, there is no doubt in my mind that this woman was married to one.
So glad she got out...
Sara,
I am so sorry for the pain you and your child endured. I'm glad you had the strength to get out.
From what I know about psychology, men and women tend to deal with being damaged differently. Men will strike out on others while women turn their anger inward.
exactly Sandra! to me it's as clear as a bell, but some people ar so busy trying to pretend they're members of mensa, they are not really listening. They seem to be more concerned with trying to impress everyone with thier creditials-instead of reaching any real solutions, that may enhance the conditions of bw all over.
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^5 LOL @ the "mensa" comment. Too bad no one's impressed thought. The point is that an overwhelming majority of bm are dbr and unsuitable for LTR. Its even WORSE for us younger "GEN Y" bw. Here's where INTERGENERATIONAL conflict comes into play... I dont understand how someone in their 40's & 50's can tell ME (a 24 year old) what my dating experiences with bm should be like; when todays bm are nothing like the bm 20-30 years ago when THEY were dating. Okay so you dated a lot of "good" bm in the 70's, How is that relevent in MARCH OF 2008?!? MAKE ME UNDERSTAND LOL Because I must be missing something LOL The bm in my age range DONT hide the fact that they view us bw as less-thans and trust, they treat us accordingly!!! So the rhetoric that older bw kick about "good bm still being around" usually goes in one ear and out the other. Because MY experieces tell me differently ;)
I commend you for leaving my mom left my dad so that I would never see them fighting infront of me.(She grew up in the middle of that) I am doing fine. I am glad that you found now love. God bless u both.
Wow! That was a powerful piece. Very powerful. I don't think ANYONE has described damage and wounded better than this.
Sara, if I thought you'd accept it, I'd give you a big hug -out of gratitude, comeraderie, and understanding. (yeah, I know there's blog wars and I'm not sure where I stand w/ you but if I could, I would..)
I am glad you escaped.
I would always accept a hug from you miriam. I think at the heart of it, we both have bw's interest at heart and that's the most important thing....thanks so much for your comments
1. Thank you Sara! This should clear up any confusion about the matter...
2. If any dope tries to befuddle the argument saying, "Well men and women express anger differently" to excuse violent tendencies...I think we will all throw up.
CW:
Naw "they" won't say that. What they'll say is that's one isolated case. They'll say only 1% of bm are like that because all the bm they know are college educated. The media would like for you to believe this and that and blah blah blah.
I believe a lot of us have dated married or know of a bm either like this or damaged on some other level.
One of my favorite aunts (who passed due to illness a while back) spent her life hooked up with "bras" mush worst than Sara did. One guy in particular was so effed up, he would have her stand against a wall in their home and pull a gun or her shooting at her like target practice *smh*.
When her second child was about a year old, another guy thought it was good to not only beat my aunt, but to beat her in front of my little cousin. This piece of crap "mistakenly" kicked my cousin in the head while beating my aunt.
Yes there are pieces of crap in all races however the real devastation is no matter how much a bw gets beat on, spit on, used and abused, the bm will always have a cheering squad, peanut gallery and supporters within the bc. It’s up to each and every one of us to know and accept they we are much worthy of this treatment.
Geez Sara, that story made me cringe and shudder. Good for you for taking yourself and your daughter out of that horrible situation.
Sandra, that's what I was saying in Halima's blog. My story is a carbon copies of this woman. I am not damaged, I was simply wounded. There is a big difference. You can not compare the actions of DBr bm to wounded bw.
As the young sista said before, the younger generation of dbr bm are a different breed. They are more open with there dbr behavior, because they feel bw have no choice but date them.
Good job Sara! You, Halima, and Evia are doing a great job.
A brilliant post Sara. 'Wounded' (vs 'damaged')... you have added a new word to the IR vocabulary.
If any dope tries to befuddle the argument saying, "Well men and women express anger differently" to excuse violent tendencies...I think we will all throw up.
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CW,
No one was excusing violent tendencies, its a psychological fact (you can look it up or speak with anyone in the pyschiatic field and they will tell you the same thing) that men do strike out at others when they are damaged(crime, domestic violent, child abuse, etc). Women on the other hand, turn their anger inward(putting themselves down, eating disorderies, getting into abusive relatiionships,cutting and burning themselves, etc.)
There is absolutely no excuse in the world to do harm to others, no matter how damaged you are.
That was great!Thank God for happy endings.
I am proud of any woman who can see the trouble she is in and know to make a plan to leave. Many women are not strong enough to make a plan and stay too long for various reasons.
And this situation usually happens during the most formative years for children. They have to go to school wounded everyday with these disturbing images of their parents on their minds and expected to learn and develop healthy friendships.
Sara that was excelllent!! I was going to post on the subject that there was a difference between damaged and damaged beyond repair. I knew it (terms) wasn't sitting right either(but understood what was being said, the concept was there in those comments.) but you pulled it right out. It is actually WOUNDED vs. DAMAGE! I was very much wounded (abuse) also. It is for the most part healing to be able to talk about it as it could help many other sisters.
Selena good statement, especially about the cheering squad.
"...Yes there are pieces of crap in all races however the real devastation is no matter how much a bw gets beat on, spit on, used and abused, the bm will always have a cheering squad, peanut gallery and supporters within the bc. It’s up to each and every one of us to know and accept they we are much worthy of this treatment..."
Thank you so much Sara for sharing that. Truly inspirational. It is amazing how our spirits can endure in order to thrive.
What timing! I just connected with an old friend(ww)who got out of a very abusive relationship. Her bf was acquaintances with my ex. They are both DBR men. My friend couldn't take it anymore when she found out this man was calling strange women for sex and using her cell phone calling up sex hotlines that winded costing her a fortune. He hit a few times. She didn't live with him but stayed at his house a lot. She finally couldn't take it anymore with these other women. She literally went back to her place, packed up all her necessary belongings and got into her car and left.
I didn't hear from her for a few years. She is now living in Pennsylvania and is married to a doctor with two beautiful children. I was amazed at her risk taking, she knew no one out there and just did it. She said she would have died had she stayed with him and in the area. She didn't do any deep self-reflection, she didn't go into therapy. Trust me, she made a lot of mistakes by putting up with his nonsense, but she didn't brow beat herself for this. She didn't punish herself and feel she was unworthy of love. I really think bw feel they have to do so much introspection before they can start living their life, like we're not allowed to make mistakes and then simply move on. I know just a year and a half ago I was one of these women. I was preparing to spend the rest of my life alone since I was so stupid by being in emotionally abusive relationships. I somehow forfeited my right to be loved.
My friend said unapologetically she wanted a husband and children. Anytime a bw expresses this she is frowned upon, especially if she got with losers in her past. This woman was almost in tears when she explained how she didn't have to wait for the other shoe to drop with her husband. He wasn't abusive, she didn't have to walk on eggshells for fear of his lashing out. I asked her how did she manage to create this life in such a relatively short period of time. She said she visualized what she wanted her life to be like. She pictured her mate and her children. She also wanted to finish her degree of being a nutritionist and she did. She met her husband in college while he was doing his residency. She just emailed me pictures of her family. She looks so happy, a far cry from the woman I knew who use to always be on edge.
This is such a contrast from the other old friend I ran into recently (bw)who is bitter and angry from her failed marriage. She couldn't even be happy for me when I told her about my relationship because the man I love happens to be white. When I compare these two women, I see one who didn't let the past shackle her to a life of misery and the other on still hurt to the point she didn't want to see others happy and holding out on that overplayed nothing but a bm song.
Lam what exactly are you saying that every person who has had something bad happen to them is damaged. If thats the case then that means all of us including you! That's the equivalent of saying that any person, beaten, raped, murdered or hurt in any way BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES! I truly hope you are not that ignorant to be suggesting such a thing. And since you seem to be trying to call all of us damaged, perhaps you could share the ways in which YOU ARE DAMAGED WITH US....
lam, anger and damage are NOT the same thing! What mental institution did you come out of? Are you trying to tell us that you have never gotten angry? That would be a damn lie and you know it! What you have done is twisted science to meet your own warped definitions of an unfounded theory. what science actually says is that SUPPRESSED ANGER causes people to indulge in self harmful activities! Go back and read again because you don't know what the hell you are talking about!
Wow! Just WOW! Very excellent post. A critical distinction has been made. Maybe in addition to taking strength from your courage - women who are in emotionally and verbally abusive relationships with the Sociopath next door, in the office, and others that cross their paths will recognize that they are wounded and not damaged and be able to forgive themselves and heal. Often women internalize the damage done to them and conclude the problem is with them in addition to the message that they hear from the BC at large. This understandable because often these walking wounded are in pain and engage in behavior that appears to be self defeating. It is but it stems not from being damaged but rather from fear,learned hopelessness and learned helplessness. This comes from not feeling they have the power over their situations and not feeling they have worth and value. This story is so full of hope and courage and strength a blessing to all who read it. Those who are in similar circumstances and those blessed to have been spared that but who have friends, family or encounter others all can and will be blessed for having read this - either with encouragement for the daily struggle or greater understanding of others.
V/r
Clarice
wow! phoenix (great to hear from you girl) I'm so happy your ww friend was able to move on happily but I wish the sista could have done the same.. We deserve happiness just like any other woman but if we hang on to pain and bitterness, it just won't happen. It's wonderful you and your guy are going strong-girl I'm so happy for you.....
Phantom, thanks girl the words did not sit right with me either. Thats like calling the victim and the victimizer both victimizers! That makes no sense!
Clarice that was excellent girl, you are truly remarkable in your summations....
"My friend said unapologetically she wanted a husband and children. Anytime a bw expresses this she is frowned upon,"
You know, you'd think a BW said she wanted to try smoking crack the way many people in the BC respond when a BW states something basic and NORMAL like this.
What has the world come to when you get criticized for saying you want a husband and children????
What has the world come to when you get criticized for saying you want a husband and children????
Someplace where being the "baby Momma" has gone from being stigmatized to being celebrated and tauted as the new Black.
Sara, another thought provoking post. I applaud you for having the courage to get the hell away from that psychopath, 'cause Lord knows what he would have done to you if given a chance.
I agree that there is a vast difference between wounded and damaged. Black women are the walking wounded, most of the time suffering in silence because nobody wants to believe (or cares) that she's hurting.
By contrast, damaged people could give a damn about who sees and is hurt by their screwed up behaviors and actions. You see it every single day on street corners, talk shows and the news. Damaged people are slowly turning our communities into a war ground with women and children the easiest, most convenient targets.
But with the stigma that the BC places on mental health, is it any wonder? How many of us know a wounded heart running around right now who could use professional help, but who refuses to even try to get the help for fear of being called "crazy"?
I used to be one of those women. See my latest blog entry for my story.
BBW what is your blog address? I would love to read your story...
BeautifulBlkWoman said... "What has the world come to when you get criticized for saying you want a husband and children???? ..... Someplace where being the "baby Momma" has gone from being stigmatized to being celebrated and tauted as the new Black."
Women in the guise of "freedom" and "independence" have embraced "doing it for themselves" and taken it to extremes. Often not quite realizing that while they are playing their game by what they think are their own rules largely they are being played. There are noteable exceptions of course and there always will be. Here is a quote from "The Value of Marriage...Even Rich Women Don't Get It" from Zabeth's Blog
(http://zabethblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/value-of-marriageeven-rich-women-dont.html) that sums it up....
"Having wealth doesn't make your non-committal relationship any more of a marriage. Just because you have wealth and status doesn't mean that you aren't in the same category as the Kim Porters, the Shanna Moakler's, and the Sheniqua's of the world. Proclaiming that there are other ways of committing to a person besides getting married is a COP OUT- an excuse.
"What many women, rich and poor alike, are failing to understand is that once you decide to live with a man and then give him a baby- YOU'VE PLAYED ALL OF YOUR CARDS! Why should he commit or marry you? You've already given him everything and not cost to boot. He's beaten you at your own game and you've made it pretty easy for him. He has his cake is eating it too."
Problem is that the "BC" in classic "white folks ice is colder" and "if it's good enough for white folks then it is good enough for us" self serving,narcisistic delusional msyogenous thinking. Notice that only those things that are easy are accepted - those that require hard work and discipline and any effort like marriage, family and children - education are eschewed as "for white folks". It is clearly damaged, warped thinking that those who think like that are not even aware of how warped and twisted it is. That is why it is damaged vice wounded. It has been internalized and integrated effectively assimilated as "normal".
Wounded folks know on a gut level that something is not right but often are not able to fix it. Wounded individuals struggle to work out the disconnect they are in pain and in conflict. The - wounded individuals do not internalized the negative BC message or drink the "Kool Aid". They know something is not right between what their experience is and what they are being told hence use of the coping mechanisms some good some not so good in an effort to soothe the pain and until they can resolve the conflict or stop the pain. If the coping mechanisms fail or make things worse or they do not resolve the conflict or the pain becomes too much they go numb and can or do occassionally eventually succumb to the Kool Aid and cross the line from wounded to damaged.
Women at large do not want to accept the reality that women have the additional responsibility or circumstance of being child bearers. That potentially makes the consequences of her actions, choices and decisions far more long lasting. That is the power of the decision that Sara made. It saved herself and her daughter and countless others who will read this blog or be touched by someone that did. Awesome! All that because of the choice she made to say no - I am not having this!
That means the stakes are higher for them. Women need to recognize their unique worth and value and work to pursue their own true interests. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. It does not matter if that hand gives birth or nurtures others in situations and circumstances. That means not buying into the hype or playing in to the hands of others who would benefit at their expense. Think long term gain rather than short term returns on investment. What seems good now may have long term unintended consequences so it is in a woman's best interest to think long term.
V/r
Clarice
Sara, I found BBW's blogsite. It is bwlovingnonbm.blogspot.com.
Sara, I forgot to add it
http://bwlovingnonbm.blogspot.com/
I decided to step my blog game up because you, Evia, Halima & CW have lit a fire under me.
Thank you all for your commnents and support Clarice are you sure your not orator? You make such excellent, compelling points! Anyway. BBW I will be checking you out today thanks everyone...
Clarice, I am newly divorced at 35 and have been separated for three years. I look forward to getting married again. I have two daughters and don't want them to think it's okay to be somebody's girlfriend or sex buddy for the rest of their lives.
The misplaced guise of independent that is being sold by this black culture only benefits bm, many women don't see that.
It's like Gina said on her blog, What about our daughters, bm are encouraging relationship sharecropping.
What an amazing story.
God bless,
Kimberly
I have to say that I agree with the vast majority of what is said on this blog and with many of the comments as well. My only question pertains to the idea that not getting married is an arrangement that is always to the woman's detriment.
In my family, the women have a history of not caring too much for marriage. My aunt was married 3 times and her most current relationship with a loving WM has been ongoing for ten years, with no wedding in sight. Truth is, after 3 failed marriages, she's found the one, but sees marriage as completely unnecessary. Her daughter, my cousin, had been living with the love of her life for 13 years. She too saw no need for marriage, and made such views known to her common-law partner. Then, late last year she was diagnosed with breast cancer. He proposed; she accepted. Mind you, this was brought on by a crisis. Otherwise, they would've grown old together, ceremony optional. My father proposed to my mother, who accepted and took the ring, but stalled the planning until they both didn't care for the wedding. I must admit that I too am not crazy about the idea of marriage and to be 100% honest, I just don't see the NEED. The average wedding today costs $25,000, which neither I nor my partner happen to have kicking around!
All of these men demonstrated enormous commitment and a willingness to get married. All of them were white men. I just wonder... why is the perception that it's always the MAN who puts off the wedding? And that NOT getting married means less commitment? That was never true in my family's case. It just means that the men the women are living with do more housework than their ex-husbands ever did.
Anon. I have not had the chance to read Zabeths post on marriage yet, but I am sure she did not try to present marriage as a panacea. We all know it's not. But if two people are in love and want to celebrate that committment, have children (inside wedlock) have a say in their spouses medical or funeral care, in the event of a catastrophe, as well as enjoy financial stipends from a spouses company plans, retirement plans, pensions etc. Then they must marry! Otherwise you really have no say in anything and according to the state you are just a girlfriend. This is probably why your relative did not marry him for 10 years, then rushed to do it when she became ill. She needed the coverage his insurance could provide, what other reason would she have if she did not believe in marriage? As for financial constritions, you can go to Vegas, AC or numerous other places and get married for less than 500.00 or about 50 at the justice of peace, money for weddings is really not nec. at all....
"...As for financial constritions, you can go to Vegas, AC or numerous other places and get married for less than 500.00 or about 50 at the justice of peace, money for weddings is really not nec. at all..."
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Amein to that! It is NOT that marriage is unnecessary, it is the AMOUNT that people spend to have one. Be Creative!!
I am the anonymous who posted about marriage. We live in Vancouver so healthcare was not the reason they chose to get married, we all have coverage. But when I think about what you said, it does make sense, I do believe if the couple wants children they should get married. In my aunt's case, she had already had all her kids in the previous marriages and the man she will actually grow old with is a stepfather to her kids. In my cousin's case, she never wanted children. And in my case, kids are a good ten years off.
So maybe it's the circumstances as well. Once kids are brought into the picture, unless you are a millionaire celeb, I do believe that the couple should probably get married.
"Taylor-Sara said...
Thank you all for your commnents and support Clarice are you sure your not orator?"
Thank you for the excellent thought provoking post and the compliment. By no means am an orator - you could not pay me to speak in front of more than a few people. Just an occassionally opinionated and outspoken would be writer and grad student who enjoys your blog!
Anonymous said...
I have to say that I agree with the vast majority of what is said on this blog and with many of the comments as well. My only question pertains to the idea that not getting married is an arrangement that is always to the woman's detriment.
There are always exceptions - however as Sara pointed out in order to have legal standing and be recognized by the courts w/ regard to medical treatment, access to the ill person, financial resources i.e. medical or funeral care, in the event of a catastrophe, as well as enjoy financial stipends from a spouses company plans, retirement plans, pensions etc. the legal contract of marriage is required and is more widely accepted than the common law designation. The posts both here and elsewhere are encouraging women not to sell themselves short and settle for less than being in the best position possible for themselves - their partners and their children. This may or may not entail marriage per se but it may involve other legal contract vechiles (sp) for power of attorney, a living will, a trust etc. to name a few.
All of those singly and collectively cost both money time and effort - kinda like a wedding and with attorney fees may still be more expensive. Also depending on the skill of the attorney those documents may be disputed and or thrown out. Women who choose not to marry but have children and remain in a long term relationship need to protect themselves with these legal protections. It is simpler to just marry.
Marriage - despite the high divorce rate is still one contract that is recognized. It has power - for example a spouse cannot be forced to testify against their spouse in most court cases - it is called spousal priviledge. It only applies to spouses - not girlfriends.
V/r
Clarice
Did you choose the damaged black man, or did he choose you? So when the white man starts to pound you over your head, who shall we blame?
Sara,
I am glad you and your daughter survived and pray both of you are healed and doing well.
Wounded BW are those that are in a bad marriage or relationship and say to themselves, I have got to save myself and my children by creating a healthy environment for us. Arguing, cussing, and fighting constantly in a home is not only draining on the body, but the mind as well. Mental health is just as important as physical health.
There is something that has been on my spirit for a while: In your story, you said that when you left the ex, friends and some family members said that you were stupid to leave. Ladies, please, please, PLEASE use discernment when hearing “advice” from friends and especially from relatives. Everybody that says they do (and let me repeat this, family members included) do not have your best interest at heart.
I knew a BM once because our families had been friends for a long time. I had never liked him because I found him arrogant and conceited; I should have listened to my spirit. He told me that I had him pegged all wrong and that he was a good, kind BM. I fell for the okey-doke and married him. Everything he told me was a lie. He was a control freak, a womanizer, and a physical abuser. When he came home from work, the first thing he did was *69 the phone to check and see who was calling his home, mind you, my name was on the mortgage too. If I was on the phone with anyone longer than he thought was an appropriate time, he would go to the wall jack and unplug it. The only time he got calls from his family was when they wanted money. He had told me that he would never, ever hit a woman; “I swear on my mother’s grave.” Yet, the one and only big argument we had he drew back his hand and slapped the shit out of me. When he got of out the emergency room, I told him we needed to separate. My grandmother had always told me, if a man hits you once, he will hit you again. I was not going to be no BM’s (or any other man for that matter) punching bag. He said that he had a lot of woman that wanted him and that replacing my black ass wouldn’t be a problem. He even had the women (identifying themselves to me as his girlfriends) to start calling our home asking for him. One day he went to work and the moving truck I rented pulled up. I put all my belongings and everything I had brought into the marriage on it and moved into the condo I had leased and never looked back. The reaction: my own mother told me that I was dead wrong and that as long as he worked that should have been enough. “He is just being a man and you ought to let him be one.” Mind you, I worked full-time, went to school full-time, did the laundry, cooked dinner, and yet that wasn’t enough for him. “You think you are so smart with those degrees and he brought you down a notch. and kept you in your place," she added. One of my sisters told me, “you need to support the brothas and hang in there with him until he get his act together. They need us in their corners.” And this is the same reaction I got from most of my female relatives and so call friends. I had a few sistas that supported me and even today we are still tight.
To blackwomenfirst: I read your comment regarding BW in their 40s and 50s telling you that there are still “good BM out here." I am in that age range and I would never tell you or any other young BW in her 20’s, including my own 20 year old daughter, that. You are right on point when you say that the young BM today are very different from the young BM of yesterday. Today, these young BM have absolutely NO RESPECT for BW and it is very disheartening and discouraging. Look at the video out today of the BW reporter in SC that was beaten on by 2 or 3 WW. If you notice, the young BM standing over them while they were fighting didn’t help the BW, instead, they pulled out their cell phones and took pictures. Disgusting.
Sistas, continue to stand strong and live the life that is best for you.
Peace and Blessings, Ann C.
First of all Mammy Jade, you are too ignorant for me to have a viable discussion with so I will not bother. Did you ever once hear me claim a white man could not be abusive???? I am so tired of mammies like you trying to twist everything I say-no wonder Evia went private! To get away from people with single digit IQs!
Jade, If a white man started to pound on her, she would leave just like she did the black man, what exactly are you implying. That she should have stayed and given a good brother another chance? -just like a mammy.....
Hmmm, I find it funny how everyone started attacking "Jade" and calling her a "mammy" for simply disagreeing. Now before you call me a mammy, I have never dated a black man in my life. However, that did not prevent me from having bad relationships. I've been told constantly that if I had a black man I would have had better relationships. That arguement is completely ridiculous. So is your arguement. You keep saying that you don't think that white men are "saviors", but the majority of your posts tell a different story. There are so many white and asian women in abusive relationships w/ "damaged' men who think that women are worthless. This doesn't mean that they should start dating black men because they'll simply attract no good black men. Similarly, if as a black you had no father figure or an abusive father figure,and you haven't dealt with that physical or emotional pain, you'll attract men that are that way. Period.
"Jade said...Did you choose the damaged black man, or did he choose you? So when the white man starts to pound you over your head, who shall we blame?"
It does not matter who chose who.Are you intentionally being dense or contrarian. Pounding anyone is not excusable (except for when they attacked) or acceptable. Making a poor choice or having accepted being chosen by someone who engages in unacceptable actions - DOES NOT justify being pounded. Your statement presumes accepting the pounding.The question for Jade is - why accept pounding under any circumstances as normal or deserved regardless as to who is pounding whom?That is a far better question.
Sara's story shows no one has to accept pounding for any reason and if they have the strength to get out they can and will succeed. Accepting pounding _ emotional, physical, spiritual or psychological is NOT ACCEPTABLE - EVER!!!!!!!!
Ann C. said..."In your story, you said that when you left the ex, friends and some family members said that you were stupid to leave. Ladies, please, please, PLEASE use discernment when hearing “advice” from friends and especially from relatives. Everybody that says they do (and let me repeat this, family members included) do not have your best interest at heart."
The only person who should always have your best interest first and foremost -is you! Friends and family do not live your life. Be healthy selfish and take care of number one. If you do not have it you do not have it to give!
Gov SPitzer's wife is ww who should have left him standing alone to make his sorry excuse for an apology alone. She chose to be his doormat - granted in a well appointed home but a door mat not the less. His children are damaged and will have scars from finding out Dad was a total sack of fertilizer and Mom a willing doormat. I pray the girls learn what not to do from this and leverage the lessons learned. But let me stop, before getting on my soapbox about that Spitzer woman and the lessons to take away from that - mess.
Bottom line Wealth does not make her any less a door mat or him any less DBR! DBR and wounded come in all colors and flavors - name is the same despite the color change.
V/r
Clarice
I just wanted to back-up Ann C. response to Blackwomanfirst. I'm in my late 40's and I certainly wouldn't try to pressure a young woman to "find a good bm". I probably wouldn't tell her anything other than do what you want to do and follow your own path. I know I started dating ir when I left my little town in the 80's ( and quite a few others I know have or are married to wm) so... just saying all 40-50's women don't hold the same opinions-we are all different. :)
kaytea, I got on her because that was such a ridiculous question, I was not about to answer it, just like I started to delete your comments without answering. I just don't have time for the silliness, nor do I have the patience. I don't give a damn who does not appreciate my posts. I would strongly advise them like I am doing you now-GO ELESWHERE! I am not here to please you, I am here to help those who want my help, perhaps you are not capable of that help, oh well.... LEAVE, If you still think I worship white. that is your perogative, but do take your opinion and your silly attitude elsewhere, and take jade with you....
and at least admit to yourself what you are really angry about. It's because I (((TOLD!!!))) and you know it.In the BC whatever a bm does to you, you are supposed to keep it a secret! We are never supposed to tell! Women are children are being beaten and victimized as we speak, but we are never supposed to expose a BROTHA! Well fuck that! the only brothers I have are the ones my mother gave birth to. So you can take that mess and feed it to the next fool. See, I made myself a promise after that happened to me to NEVER let anyone walk on me ever again. And I intend to keep that promise. NOBODY does me wrong anymore, and if you don't like this blog, why the hell are you here? Go find ones you like that hide whats going on in the BC and lie and tell you, you can trust a man because he has your skin color..... Any abuser should be exposed be he black, white, brown or red....
Right on, Sara! If some of these ladies are so disgruntled by these blogs I wish they would start their own. They can start blogs about how they were victimized by DBR wm in their IR relationships.
Clarice you bring a up a great point on Silda Wall Spitzer. I am reading this whole debacle on mainstream media outlets and blogs. I have watched Silda stand by her husband's side looking so foolish. Everyone has such compassion for this woman like she's the wronged party. There are woman who have been the wronged party in her type of situation, but I don't see Silda fitting the profile in this case. She probably knew her husband was stepping out on her for years. I think she has aged overnight, not because of his penchant for whoring around, but for the loss of power and privilege she was enjoying by being the First Lady of New York. Word has it she did not want her husband to step down from his position as governor. She probably would have continued to tolerate his infidelities as long as he wielded political and financial power. I don't see her leaving the situation to set the right example for her daughters.
Doormats and enablers come in many different forms. As you say, this cuts across race and class.
Ann, I am so proud of you for getting out, and so happy for you! That comment about him getting out of the ER had me rolling... bless you for your strength and courage... I wish more sistas could see that they can escape....
"To blackwomenfirst: I read your comment regarding BW in their 40s and 50s telling you that there are still “good BM out here." I am in that age range and I would never tell you or any other young BW in her 20’s, including my own 20 year old daughter, that. You are right on point when you say that the young BM today are very different from the young BM of yesterday. Today, these young BM have absolutely NO RESPECT for BW and it is very disheartening and discouraging. "
I am in my early 20's and I can tell you from experience that this is absolutely true. Whenever a bm approaches me, it is with a sense of arrogance, entitlement, no class, and no respect. He doesn't make me feel like a woman, he makes me feel like a piece of meat that BELONGS to him, just because I'm black. One time, I even had a black guy follow me with his car. I tried to be polite but firm in showing that I wasn't interested, and he continued to follow me. I told him my bf would be angry to know that he was coming onto me (HINT HINT), and he replied, "Well, your boyfriend don't have to know!" Just before speeding away (finally!) angrily, he said, "Hey, you makin' me SAD!"
LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO CARE?!
These men should be sent to some distant island to live alone, out of sight, imo. And I know it's harsh, but they are so toxic that they're like a biohazard.
thank you anon. I agree completely you should read Shecodes new post about going to college with bm she considered friends and walking into a party one night with her girlfriends and having these same brothers begin to chant: Hooray the hoes are here!! over and over....They have no respect, no class, no manners and they get none of my time.....
@ phoenix sun...
Amen re Silda Spitzer. I find it hard to have sympathy for political wives also. They know the name of the game, especially if their husbands have been involved in politics for any length of time. They know there is a trade-off in order to keep their husbands and the lifestyle. What the public finds out about is just the tip of the iceberg.
Like I said before, lets simply AGREE to DISAGREE and lets go our separate ways.....
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